After Keith’s mom passed away, his sister Sherri picked up the case and dedicated herself to finding justice for her brother. In this episode, we talk about how today’s climate makes the idea of justice for Keith and victims of marginalized communities more tangible.
After Keith’s mom passed away, his sister Sherri picked up the case and dedicated herself to finding justice for her brother. In this episode, we talk about how today’s climate makes the idea of justice for Keith and victims of marginalized communities more tangible. We hear from Rashad Robinson, President of Color Change, who offers his outline for a just society.
This podcast includes graphic discussion of a violent death. Listener discretion is advised.
The “Uprooted" podcast is the companion to the new discovery+ series “Uprooted,” streaming exclusively on discovery+. Go to discoveryplus.com/uprooted to start your 7-day free trial today.
Find episode transcripts here: https://uprooted.simplecast.com/episodes/ep6-a-journey-of-hope
Somil Trivedi:
I know it seems slow. And I know it seems hard to accept a system that continues to be so violent to certain communities as legitimate or improving. But we are seeing that change now,
Alicia Garza:
Somil Trivedi, a Senior Staff Attorney at the ACLU's Criminal Law Reform Project.
Somil Trivedi:
I think the efforts of activists, particularly in black and brown communities for decades, centuries is finally bringing allies a board in a way that should have happened a lot earlier. No question.
Alicia Garza:
After more than two decades of watching her mother work to get Keith Justice, Sherri Warren took over the fight. It's now been over 30 years since Keith's death and she's still fighting yet. Sherri has somehow managed to maintain one thing that kept her going a sense of hope that she could still at the very least get recognition for Keith's death and an official reclassification of his cause of death from suicide to undetermined. I'm Alicia Garza, and you are listening to Uprooted the companion podcast to the Discovery Plus mini series reexamining the Keith Warren case today on our series finale will hear from activists and lawyers who despite working on some of the most deeply entrenched issues in this country still feel optimistic that change is coming. They'll talk about how others can get involved and make change to. And later we'll hear from Rashad Robinson, President of Color of Change, the largest online racial justice organization in the country. This is Uprooted. When Sherri Warren took over the case from her mother, Mary Couey. She found that getting any response from the police, the coroner, even the media was an uphill battle.
Damon Hewitt:
I saw an interview with Keith Warren's sister, and she mentioned having to fight justice to get justice.
Alicia Garza:
This is Damon Hewitt president and Executive Director of the Lawyer's Committee for Civil Rights under Law.
Damon Hewitt:
And by that she meant she was having to fight this system that was supposed to either protect her brother, protect black people, or at least be responsive when we are hurt injured, harmed, or killed. That justice system wasn't working.
Alicia Garza:
Damon's organization is invested in addressing issues that black America faces today, including overpolicing and police brutality. And the fact that the justice system doesn't work well. That's something he's trying to combat.
Damon Hewitt:
We see that time and time again. What a system simply doesn't work to value black life. There's no reason for us to think that if black life is in value, when it comes to prosecution and overpolicing and imposition of the death penalty, why should it work? When we're found dead in a community and Keith Warren's case, hanging from a tree .
Alicia Garza:
When Damon talks about the constant miscarriage of justice that he sees in the system, he's not saying it's a hopeless cause he just thinks that it takes more than organizations to fight this.
Damon Hewitt:
I do think sometimes people have to take it upon themselves.
Alicia Garza:
It takes people like Sherri Warren.
Damon Hewitt:
You know, some of the biggest scandals or civil rights claims even have been broken, not by law enforcement authorities, but because private individuals, private citizens took it upon themselves to not be silent, to clamor for attention to say, hey, something wrong has happened here.
Alicia Garza:
Sherri Warren never set out to become an activist, but in pursuing justice for Keith, she became one. In the last decade, we've seen a growing social consciousness across the country. Individuals feel more empowered and knowledgeable than ever to share their opinions on social issues. And young people in particular are becoming more active and engaged in making change.
Rashawn Davis:
When I was in high school, I had a mentor who gave me a Howard Thurman quote that said, don't ask what the world needs.
Alicia Garza:
This is Rashaan Davis.
Rashawn Davis:
Ask what makes you come alive and go do it because what the world needs is people who have come alive.
Alicia Garza:
Rashawn is the Associate Director of the Racial Justice Fund at Change.org, an initiative to support black led organizations and organizers. And he's a big believer in finding your own way to contribute.
Rashawn Davis:
And I say that is because oftentimes we think there are only certain ways we can contribute to progress that we can contribute to change that you have to run for office or that you have to be an organizer or that you have to be in this strict confine of what it means to be a change agent.
Alicia Garza:
But in reality, the barrier to entry for activism is now lower than ever. With more widespread internet. The average person has greater access to online petitioning and fundraising platforms. And of course, social media, which connects like-minded people and amplifies their voices. It allows for anyone to participate and in a way that makes sense for them.
Rashawn Davis:
And the reality is is that injustice is everywhere. It's across the spectrum. And to that end, we need people in planetary science, biology. We need people in athletics. We need people in government. We need people across the sector, whatever that world is, find your way to make change in that world because we're needed in all these different spaces at all these different levels.
Alicia Garza:
Rashawn isn't just out here encouraging others to do the work. He's done it himself at Change.org and at the ACLU before that. He even ran for office in Newark, New Jersey when he was only 21,
Rashawn Davis:
I actually came home during winter break, I think my junior year. And I met up with some friends and this was a particularly violent year for the city that there had been just frankly, lots of murders. And I remember having a discussion with some folks and saying, we need to have a voice in this because you start to realize that in Newark, like a lot of cities, the main victims and perpetrators of violent crime are young black men under the age of 30.
Alicia Garza:
Rashawn and his friends realized that the city council at the time didn't have a single member under 45. And to them, that was emblematic of the disconnect between the types of issues they were facing and the people seated at the table.
Rashawn Davis:
And so that was the inspiration that, hey, we, you know, this is a city where a third of the population is under the age of 40. We need to have representation in, in the halls of power.
Alicia Garza:
They started with what means they had.
Rashawn Davis:
Those group of people who were there with me that night. We opened up bank account. We each put in, I think about a hundred dollars. We registered with the election commission here in New Jersey. And we said, hey, if we're around for a few debates and we can make our voices heard, then that's a win.
Alicia Garza:
They didn't expect to actually win. That wasn't the point.
Rashawn Davis:
If we can get us in front of some people and talk about how young people need a voice. And I remember I went back to school and I decided the way we're gonna do this is I'm gonna basically register for classes Monday through Thursday, take a train or a bus from DC to Newark. And we would campaign Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. And we started doing that. We started knocking on doors.
Alicia Garza:
While knocking doors. They realized that young people had a real appetite to be involved. That's how they went from having $200 in the bank to $20,000. They got a manager and eventually ran a 16 month campaign. And even though they didn't win, they'd more than met their goal.
Rashawn Davis:
I mean, it came down to election day and I remember we had an election night party and I remember seeing the results come in and, and just being in tears, not because we lost, but just because of what we built and what we accomplished.
Alicia Garza:
What he felt back then on the campaign trail, he still feels now that the energy and excitement for social change is growing.
Rashawn Davis:
And I, and I think that's important. I think for a long time, there was this mysticism behind it where people would see things or observe things and, and really not feel empowered to say much or not feel like they were equipped to say anything. And I think one of the things I'm most excited about is that in a lot of ways, social change and activism has been democratized that like people feel empowered to do something that they aren't just waiting for NAACP to step in, or they aren't just waiting for Black Lives Matter to step in that people aren't afraid to say things on their own. And so I, I, I think that's the thing I'm most excited about.
Alicia Garza:
The one thing that everyone we talked to pointed out was that so much of the change that is happening or has already happened, relies on thousands who came before us. Some whose names we remember, and some whose names we don't. Rashawn Davis who ran for office in Newark.
Rashawn Davis:
And I remember when I started as an organizer, the first thing I see in my office is this photo from 1967, a protest in Newark where folks are holding up the sign saying accountable policing now.
Alicia Garza:
Somil Trivedi, who we heard from earlier says that Sherri is one of those people who continues to do the work, regardless of whether she's remembered or not. She's doing it to make a difference. Not only for Keith, but for others too.
Somil Trivedi:
You know, whenever we represent people who have been wronged by the system, we usually tell them, it's unlikely that our case is going to help you directly. Sometimes it will, but sometimes it's just to fix the system that has already fucked you over, right? And every single time they say that's okay, I'm not in it for me, I'm in it to change the system that hurt me. And I can imagine that Keith Warren's family feels the same.
Alicia Garza:
So far in this episode, we've heard from various change makers on why amidst all the pain and suffering they still feel hopeful. And how they're optimistic about the path forward. Now we'll hear from Rashad Robinson, President of Color of Change, who shares his vision and plan for a just society. Thank you so much Rashad for joining us today.
Rashad Robinson:
Thank you for having me.
Alicia Garza:
Do me a favor and introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about what you do.
Rashad Robinson:
I'm Rashad Robinson. I lead an organization called Color of Change, which is the largest online racial justice organization in the country driven by over 7 million members, black folks and allies of every race. We work to make systems work better for black people to create a more human and less hostile world for black people. And as a result, all people. And we do that through strategic campaigns, uh, campaigns that mobilize everyday people to hold institutions, accountable, government and corporations and media to the needs and concerns of our community. And so every single day, I wake up with a proud, courageous and incredibly brilliant team of activists focused on making America work better.
Alicia Garza:
Hmm. I love that. Thank you. Rashad we toss around a lot of terms in today's world, right? I call it word soup and so I'm hoping we can spend a couple of minutes just defining what we mean by things when we say them. And the first thing I want us to define is racial justice. What does racial justice look like in 2022? What could racial justice look like? And what does it mean when we talk about racial justice?
Rashad Robinson:
Well, racial justice, I mean, I think first about justice actually, and justice about having systems of accountability that work, having a world that can be on our side, where we can get the benefit of the doubt. Is it both about written rules and unwritten rules that kind of work for you and work for you the same as they work for others. And then when we add race to it is a deep recognition that so many of the injustices that we have in our country are connected to race are connected not simply to the ways in which systems do not work for black and brown people, but the ways in which systems were designed to not work for black and brown people, it's not about a broken system. It's actually about systems that are operating exactly the way they are designed. And so, so much of the work has to be focused on reimagining systems and every single day we're living in this country, our people are living in this country. And so we have to do the things that we can do each and every day to get about as much progress as much justice as possible.
Alicia Garza:
You know, it's interesting because I think a lot of people right now are overwhelmed by the challenges that we face in our society every day. And for some people, their approach to this work might be empowerment, right. You know, making people feel good about themselves or making people feel better in their current circumstances. And as long as people feel better, then maybe things will change. But you and I have often talked about how empowerment is not the same as power. What does power mean and look like to you, to your organization, and how can power be used to change injustice in our society?
Rashad Robinson:
You know, we talk a lot about power at Color of Change. So much of our work is about building black political power about cultural power, power across so many of the systems that impact our lives. And, you know, one of the sort of things I think a lot about is the difference between presence and visibility, awareness, retweets, shout outs from the stage, all the things that are not necessarily bad presence is not bad, but when we mistake presence for power we can think that we've done something that we haven't actually done and power for us is the ability to change the rules. Sometimes they're the written rules of policy. Other times they're the unwritten rules of culture. And so what we try to do when we talk about not mistaking presence for power, it's like knowing that a black president doesn't mean you're, post-racial, it means that America's love and celebration for black celebrities doesn't mean that America loves black people as much as America loves black culture, because America can love, monetize and celebrate black culture and hate black people at the same time.
Rashad Robinson:
And those two things don't have to be in conflict. I think a lot about the stories we tell connected to that Alicia, right? The stories we tell in the media, the stories we tell, you know, throughout culture far too often, we tell stories about inequality that are connected to this kind of idea of empowerment versus power, right? We tell stories of inequality that are unfortunate rather than unjust like inequality sort of as like a car accident. It sort of just happens. And instead of actually talking about it unjust, and when we do that, we get charitable solutions to structural problems. So people thinking that it's enough to send water bottles to Flint because that's empowerment instead of cleaning up the pipes, it's enough to do a mentorship program at a inner city school because that's empowerment instead of actually dealing with public education, dealing with the impacts, it's enough to simply do reentry programs instead of dealing with the fact that America has 4% of the world's population and 25% of the world's incarcerated population.
Rashad Robinson:
So empowerment is about how do I help people, because I think of those people maybe as vulnerable, right? And I recognize deeply that black people are not vulnerable. We have been targeted exploited, attacked vulnerability is a personal trait. You know, I may feel vulnerable if I go online on social media and see, you know, maybe an X that's too happy with his life at any given time
Rashad Robinson:
So putting the blame in the wrong place. And what I mean by that is, they'll say black people are less likely to get a loan from the bank. Instead of banks are less likely to give loans to black people. Now that might sound like semantics to folks. When we think about sort of the systems that harm and hurt us. But when you say black people are less likely to get a loan from the bank, people say, um, what's wrong with black people, maybe I need to like help black people. Maybe they need financial literacy programs to help them deal with institutions that have targeted exploited red line that's kept us out from the very beginning. On the other hand, you say banks are less likely to give loans to black people, people say, Hmm, you know what, what's wrong with the banks. There might need to be some structural change. And so all of this is really important. And while some, they think it's semantics, the people who want to uphold the systems want to make sure that they continue to play by a set of rules that will advantage them, understand that it is absolutely not semantics. It is absolutely the stories that lead them to being able to stay in power and keep us out.
Alicia Garza:
Rashad. I wanna talk a little bit more about Color of Change and the work that you all do in the world. You know, it strikes me that in this age of the Black Lives Matter movement, right, which is now really a global phenomenon. There's been so much spotlight and attention placed on the criminal legal system on policing and these are some of the unjust systems that you're talking about and yet we see time and time again, right? How the systems as they're designed are creating unjust outcomes for our communities. You all take that on directly. And so I'd love it. If you could talk a little bit about how you do that, especially as it relates to the criminal legal system.
Rashad Robinson:
So we have a theory as an organization that kind of meets our members online first and goes from online to offline. And maybe offline back to online is that people, every single day are hit with all sorts of information from the radio to the television, to the internet, to all across from a podcast like this, right. We're hit with all sorts of information every single day. And what we try to do is pair that information with something to do, because otherwise people will go back to doing what they were doing before. So there's a, there's a kind of a rapid response aspect, but we also have a, a really clear theory that, you know, you can't ask people to do things that are unstrategic right. So you have to have a theory of change. So you're not gonna hear Color of Change. Say, tell Mitch McConnell to stand up for affirmative action because there's no amount of people signing a petition that's gonna get that dude to stand up for affirmative action. And so actually asking people to sign a petition is not power. It's actually just wasting people's time. And so we're constantly thinking about what is the right lever that we ask people to move that by moving them in that direction. And by building energy, it can be a forced multiplier to create change. We also have a deep understanding that petitions are like a virtual door knock, right? They're a tactic in a larger strategy. And just like you can door knock on a lot of doors and knock on all the wrong doors or knock on doors with the wrong information or knock on doors at the wrong time. That just because you've knocked on doors, doesn't mean you've actually done something. And so for us, when we think about sort of the petition, we think about the ask, right?
Rashad Robinson:
And so we have this theory called respond, build, pivot, and scale, respond to moments that are happening in the world, build energy, find the systemic pivot that is constantly happening and then scale that over time. And so if you think about a moment like Trayvon Martin, for instance, right, we responded right with a petition calling on the justice department to get engaged. Then we were building energy, you know, hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of people had signed that petition. We also, at the same time had a petition that was a bit older around corporate funded voter suppression, targeting an organization called the American Legislative Exchange Council in demanding and the corporations that were funding ALEC to stop funding ALEC because of sponsoring laws that say, you can vote with your gun license, but not your student ID narrowly tailored laws to prevent some people from being able to vote.
Rashad Robinson:
Well, then at some point we found out that the stand your ground law and the voter ID law was written both by ALEC the same organization. So now we've got all these people on this same petition we've responded and we've built energy, but now we have to find that systemic pivot. And so we were able to move people to then focus on ALEC, right, and say, Hey, you know, underneath this justice for Trayvon, we also have to deal with the systems and the structures that have advanced these laws. And as a result, we were able to help both educate people and move them to something that while still working on justice for Trayvon, recognizing that part of justice for Trayvon is about working to change systems, working to change rules, working to change the way systems work over a hundred corporations ended up having to divest their money from ALEC, leaving them with a 1.5 million budget shortfall.
Rashad Robinson:
We forced them to stop their work on discriminatory voter ID and stand your ground. We forced them to have to give up their swanky DC office and move to smaller ones out in Virginia. We did a whole lot of work, right, but that was about people power, but it wasn't simply about directing people any old given way. It was about directing them in a, towards a place for which showing up actually means something. A march only means something if you march to the right place. And that I think is incredibly important. But at the heart of all, this is a deep recognition and a deep respect for people, power at Color of Change. We know that we will always lose in the back rooms when it comes to issues of racial justice. If we don't have the people lined up at the front door and lining the people up at the front door means you have to line them up in strategic ways, cause people will only follow you so many times if you're asking to do things that don't matter, they're not gonna keep coming back, but at Color of Change every single day, whether it is pivoting people to, you know, in a criminal justice context, taking on district attorneys or taking on bail reform or taking on these levers, that can be forced multipliers for change.
Rashad Robinson:
People keep coming back because they experience real wins. Even while there are losses, we experience wins, we experience progress. And at the heart of that is the engagement of people.
Alicia Garza:
What do you say to folks who wanna know how they can get involved in making change?
Rashad Robinson:
Well, first of all, I say, join us at Color of Change. Go to colorofchange.org and sign up. You know, we have local squads in communities all around the country and those local squads are doing all sorts of really incredible work. Um, holding the district, attorney accountable, building communities of support around issues, um, doing work around economic justice. There's also local grassroots organizations in your communities that are every single day doing work. There's, you know, movement for black lives and BLM sort of chapters and affiliates in communities. And so everywhere where you are, there are folks doing the work and we actually have to work together. Sometimes people say, well, one person can make change on their own, but I don't actually know a story of steep, systemic change where one person did that. Hollywood sometimes wants to make us believe that. But even the movie about said person was made with a whole lot of people.
Rashad Robinson:
And so everything that you wanna do that is big and powerful requires a lot of people to be invested and engage. Especially if you wanna change something, change something that is a deep barriers, change a, a system or a structure. And so I wanna invite people into being part of movement. It's messy being invested and engaged. It's sometimes hard. You're gonna be frustrated, but anything worth doing is gonna have its challenges, but 5, 10, 15, 20 years from now, we will look back at this moment. We'll all have to have a story of what we did about how we contributed about how we engage. And wouldn't it be amazing for you all to tell a story for the listeners, to be able to tell a story about being on the side of justice, about joining hands with people who look like them and don't look like them in the pursuit of something higher, because you know, back to these ideas that I constantly talk about, when I think about sort of the stories we tell about ourselves and the stories we tell about vulnerability, the stories we tell about harm, the stories we tell about charity.
Rashad Robinson:
I wanna frame the stories, not simply in that way, but about justice, about being a hero, right. And what would it mean if we all saw black people? If we saw the struggles of black people, not as a struggle that we wanna help because we feel sorry, but we wanna get invested because we wanna unlock the potential because we so believe in the future, right? Because when you get behind a protagonist in any story, you're not getting behind them because you see them as weak. You're getting behind them because you see them as strong because you want them to win. But you also know that them winning means that we all win. Mm
Alicia Garza:
Rashad, thank you so much for taking the time to be with us today. Is there anything you wanna leave our listeners with?
Rashad Robinson:
I think the thing that I wanna leave folks with is this idea that drives me is that people don't experience issues. We experience life. The forces that hold us back are deeply interrelated. Uh, racist criminal justice system requires a racist media culture to keep it alive, sustained and creates the demand for it. Economic inequality goes hand in hand with political inequality. These things are so connected in a deep way. And so if we recognize the integrated world that we live in, we have to recognize there's not a single issue. That will be a silver bullet to change. This is about building power. It is about recognizing that in order to raise the floor on what's acceptable and push up the ceiling on what's possible, we have to build power. And so for anyone that is seeking to change systems to change the barriers and hold communities back, if you are not working to build power, then you are not doing the work to change the rules and building power and building power. For those that have been put in harm's way is the fastest pathway to actually changing the things that harm us that hurt us and prevent us from being great. And so if anything, our work has to center building power, changing rules as a path to making the type of change we all deserve.
Alicia Garza:
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for joining us for this season of Uprooted. It's been an honor to be on this journey with all of you. May we never forget Keith's story or his family's pursuit of justice for more on Keith Warren's case. Check out the mini series on Discovery Plus Uprooted is produced by Now This for discovery plus in partnership with Pod People special, thanks to the production team at Pod People. Rachel King, Matt Sav, Ivana Tucker, Jazzi Johnson, Liz Mak, Brian Rivers, Vincent Cacchione and Aimee Machado.